Kath Empire

[lwhitehead]

 Hi I need help with my Kath race inspired by Kilrathi from Wing Commander PC games, The Kathians are my space going large cat race.


 The home planet is called Kath hence why they are called Kathians, the first Emperor was the one who led the Kath to revolt againest there masters and founded the beginings of the Empire.


 The Kath are very muck like the Kligons from Star Trek in dress and behavior there society is slipt between nobles houses and commomers,


 I need help in figure out what this race looks like and setting of this world,


  LW

[Wotan]

I have three words for you:  Man-Kzin Wars.

[lwhitehead]

 Yes I know of that but there are many books in that series?, I could use some more help.


  LW

[Wotan]

OK.
 
 Here is my suggestion.  Read these books by Larry Niven in the following order:

 (1) Ringworld
 (2) Ringworld Engineers
 (3) The Ringworld Throne
 (4) Ringworld's Children
 (5-15) Man-Kzin Wars, Part I-XI
 (16) Fleet of Worlds

  While you're at it, read the 'Pride of Chanur' series by C. J. Cherryh

  And, if you can find them, read some of the 'Chi'Garrian Chronicles' stories by J. Mickey Manoram (he also writes under the name 'Blake Yorrick', and is known as 'Kenti Bengali' in the fandom), and he is also my co-author on the 'Insularis' series that he and I are currently working on, so I will admit I may be a little biased.

  You will have felinoid alien ideas falling out your butt by that point.

[lwhitehead]

 Well it's good that Wotan has a story that going to be officially published I on the other hand right now am at the research stage,


  The Kathian and Terran war which will take place 27th Century, in this setting I'm trying to show that ether side isn't evil. I mean most space fiction like Honor series which is very good I say myself is generally one sided, well I want to show that each side is capable of both good in evil in the time of war. But the main character is a Human who was raised as a Kath and considers himself more Kath then Terran,

  LW

[lwhitehead]

 Well I still need help with space design for this setting in the 27th century, I'm not real good at space ship design specially in miltary fiction.


  LW

[Wotan]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the single biggest help and favour that you can do for yourself when you're looking for ideas is to READ SOME BOOKS.

  Stephen King said it best:  "Every good writer has one thing in common, and that is that they spend just as much, if not more time reading other people's books as they do on writing their own."

  And that is a far wiser statement than you might realise.  Simply having someone throw some technical ideas at you doesn't really give you everything that you need.  You need knowledge about how to describe what you want to build, the proper finesse, and the ability to keep the reader interested.  The *ONLY* way you can gain a true and proper understanding of the complete picture is by reading.  I've already given you an excellent selection of books, which I think will help you.  You could likely get most of them in a used book store for less than five dollars a piece.  What are you waiting for?

[lwhitehead]

 Well I'm trying to avoid the space Zeps of David Webber's Honor series, the Babylon 5 battle ships that have to rotate in the middle and x wing fighters, and Wing Commander's ships as well,


 What I want to do is anglar sloping armor and a dash of Klingon and a pinch of Star Fleet battles fighting cat race, I want the ships to reflect Asian design ith the above mention racial touches.


 LW

[Wotan]

Well I'm trying to avoid the space Zeps of David Webber's Honor series, the Babylon 5 battle ships that have to rotate in the middle and x wing fighters, and Wing Commander's ships as well,


 What I want to do is anglar sloping armor and a dash of Klingon and a pinch of Star Fleet battles fighting cat race, I want the ships to reflect Asian design ith the above mention racial touches.


 LW

  OK,
  That's a start.  Now, have you sat down and tried to start writing a more detailed description of what you see?  That will be most productive.  Do some reading, start to work through some ideas in your head, and then come back here with *SPECIFIC* questions.

[Aaeden]

I very much agree with the fact that reading other peoples' work positively influences one's own, however at the same time, reflecting the properties of your creatures in terms of existing ideas assumes the reader has READ all those resources before reading your book. I wouldn't make any references to anything else, even if your concept is virtually identical to an existing one. I imagine I would be very confused if I opened a book and it said "A cat-race, just like every other cat-race in popular culture nowadays..." Not only does it break the fourth wall, but it assumes I have some idea of what the cat-race the author is speaking of is like, or that I've limited my exposure to cat-races that only match the properties that he's going on about. As much as you're looking at other peoples' art to paint your own, you still start with a blank canvas, a set of paints, and a brush. Paint it from the ground up as opposed to taking photographs.

That's just my suggestion though.

[Wotan]

..."A cat-race, just like every other cat-race in popular culture nowadays..." Not only does it break the fourth wall, but it assumes I have some idea of what the cat-race the author is speaking of is like, or that I've limited my exposure to cat-races that only match the properties that he's going on about...

  Aaeden,
  I'm pretty sure you know that that was not what I was suggesting.  What I was suggesting was for him to read a bunch of other works, mainly to get a feel for how it has been done before.  From that starting point, he will be far better situated to develop his own idea that is different from the others, and from that understanding that he would have (from having read the work of others), he conversely have a much better handle on being able to keep his own creation unique from the others.
 

[Mobile Suit Bunny]

Wotan, I dint know you humped the big cat peoples

I love the kzin. tbh, sometimes you just can't reinvent the wheel. The kzin are awesomesauce, and they're practically public-domain now. Everyone and their mom has written a kzin story, to make a gross overexaggeration. Just write a kzin tale. =) I mean, if you love the kzin, you don't have to twist it somehow differently and make it your own. Unless you really, really want to.

I mean, they're a damn galactic empire. There's all kinds of room for anything. But if you -do- make a race based on the kzin, and you don't ack it, people are going to point it out to you. 'Oh, that's kzin right there.' It just comes with the territory. It's like trying to make a pointy-eared emotionless logic-driven race, it just screams Vulcan and you aren't ever going to shake it.

I don't want to sound defeatist, but the kzin are just too damn well-known to base something off of them and call it your own. Everyone called out Origin when they sprung the Kilrathi on us. (Although it was great fun to pretend I was -really- going to war against the kzin.)

But as Wotan said, read the Ringworld books and ALL the Man-Kzin Wars and revel in the awesomeness. And then assault your cat-people story with your newfound insight.

(We're just trying to guide you for ideas, not smack you down. Except Wotan already said hands-down the best thing you can do.)

(I still hold that line about keeping Chula-Rrit as a pet one of the greatest sci-fi insults of all time.)

(third parenthesis: I'm just a crazy old drunken rabbit, prone to going on minor rants. don't mind me and my kzin-worship =P)

[lwhitehead]

 Well right now I'm reading a collective of the first Three books of Chanur series, which is really good.



 Now the Kath Empire have 16 major noble houses which includes the Imperial family, now each noble house has dominion over a sector of the Empire. In return of policing there sectors each noble house has to chip in for the good of the empire also each house has to give money for the Imperial army and space navy and manpower as well.

 Now the Imperial house which acts as balance between this houses and also has the strongest amount of blood of the first Emperor, the Kath take to heart born to rule they believe that good traits and bad traits are passed in the blood.

 They also have four fingers and toes which is why they have Base 8 math,


   LW

[Aaeden]

Sorry about that, Wotan, I did totally misread your intent on that one. You're right, going to the 'established sources' is a good way to figure out what's been done, what's worked, and how your own views differ.

Dude. A cat-race that use octal math? That makes things so much easier if you're working with modern computers and such. Makes a hell of a lot more sense why a byte is 8 bits too. :3 That in and of itself makes your concept unique.

[Wotan]

Sorry about that, Wotan, I did totally misread your intent on that one. You're right, going to the 'established sources' is a good way to figure out what's been done, what's worked, and how your own views differ.

Dude. A cat-race that use octal math? That makes things so much easier if you're working with modern computers and such. Makes a hell of a lot more sense why a byte is 8 bits too. :3 That in and of itself makes your concept unique.

Uhm,
  I'm afraid that idea's NOT unique.  Larry Niven already thought of it.  The Kzin count and reckon in octals.

[Aaeden]

Fair enough. I'm just going to back out of this conversation now, as it seems I'm clearly unaware of the majority of the book material being referenced as guidance. Blargh.

Regardless, good luck to you on coming up with new and interesting ideas.

[lwhitehead]

 The Kath Empire series is set in the 27th Century, also they are modeled after the Chinese and Japanese Empires of old Earth.


 Now as whole the Kath are have a Noble and Commoner system also they are big Tea and Wine drinkers, also there food is Asian in style and taste but to Terran mouths it's very spicey or too flavorful for there tastes.


 LW

[lwhitehead]

 Please people I still need help with this novel series and setting as well.


  LW

[Wotan]

Whitehead,
  I'm curious.  Do you have some sort of problem, where you are not able to acknowledge or comprehend advice that people have already given you?  So far you seem to have completely ignored all of the suggestions you have been given, and instead, you simply want people to *GIVE* you ideas with little or no understanding of what you are actually looking for.  I'm sorry, but I am now locking this thread and the other one you have posted on a similar topic.  I will also do the same for any further thread that you make in this sub-forum where all you are going to do is make vague requests that no normal person could hope to carry out.
  Come back here with something concrete, and understandable that actually shows and proves to everyone that you have actually taken some time to do work and research, and I will re-open your threads.  I advise you to pay attention to what I have just told you, because I really don't want to have to make this an admin issue.  I would prefer that myself and other folks actually be able to help you, but that help is a two-way street.
  In other words, BE SPECIFIC, AND I MEAN VERY SPECIFIC IN JUST WHAT HELP IT IS THAT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR.  Send it to me in a private message, and if I feel that it is indeed serviceable, I will re-open your threads.  But until then, I'm no longer going to allow you to gum up this sub-forum.
 Capisce?